Oneness - True Faith
qOLOp
Re: The origin of the universe Posted on: 2005/6/21 21:49
=->qOLOp
Good questions.
I believe I understand what you mean.
When you ask the question: "What caused it to exist?" You are asking for a reason "to be" but more important, a particular point in time. It is the same if you believe that the "big bang" caused the existence of the universe. What caused it to exist? How hydrogen and helium got together and exploded? who made them in motion? and more important, what existed before the explotion? and before those things and so on ...ad infinitum... The same holds true if you believe that a "supernatural being" created the universe. What caused it to exist? and before the existence of the universe? Some respond: There was nothing. Why it had to be something? If nothing was there, where was God? and If God was there, then "nothing" never existed... besides who created God? how He came into existence?

Why it is easy to say " God is eternal", meaning God has no beginning and no end. Always existed, but then it is so difficult to understand that matter has always existed as the law of conservation of energy affirms.

As far as thinking that existence has a reason or a utility is just a matter of perception. Animals are not catter for anything unless you find a meaning to it. A painter painting a picture can make the biggest mess, however; for some it will be called art. What I see whith my eyes are not what actually exist but a perception of it through my physical senses. An incomplete picture of what exist at a particular point in time, which will change as time passes by in interaction with other material entities. You call it symbiosis because you see differences betwen entities, I may call it " ..." because I see that something cannot exist by itself.. it is the same matter in different arrangement. This is the old Ying -Yang. You can perceive both polarities as opposites. I can perceive them as complementary, someone may say: " they are both, complementary and opposite at the same time".. but we know that THAT cannot be. You can only be one thing but no the other at the same time.... Like I said before, ALL depends on your stage of consciousness.
Mathematics is just a way to interpret the world around us, the physical world, which are limited by physical laws. Mathematics cannot go beyond that, it is very limited. Mathematics cannot understand what is beauty, for instance; however, we have experience it. It is about consciousness and to go beyond is about soul consciousness rather then body consciousness.
Thank you for such an interesting talk.
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wizanda
Re: The origin of the universe Posted on: 2005/6/22 0:27
Helper
Joined:
2004/3/26 7:04
From Nottingham, UK
Posts: 2144
Like wise it is nice to talk to someone who is educated!

What I mean in terms of symbiosis is not just the way we interact.

Yet many things with in nature I.E.
We breathe out carbon dioxide and plants need it to grow, Plants change from breathing out oxygen in the day, when we need it to breath and a night carbon dioxide, so as to keep a balance.

Plants need phosphates and nitrates to grow, our bodies convert what we eat into these, not that it is pure waste yet we make what plants need to cultivate.

So how could these have come about, unless it was intended?

In other words the painter had a Good idea, of what it was painting before hand.

This is the bit that gets me, I saw on a documentary about rain forests.

Leaves fall off the trees, and then something large eats them, gets rid of it as waste, something smaller then eats the waste, then something smaller. Till it is reduced down to microscopic energy, then the fungus absorbs what is left and then the trees feed through the fungus, which connects the whole forests energies back in a full circle.

Now that is clever, so if that occurs here that all matter is recycled
Also we now know that it does in the universe i.e. black holes absorb dense matter and put it back as ultra violet light, which isnít matter.
Unless you know any other scientific discovery to where the matter goes when it is absorbed by a black hole? As that is a lot of energy, that you would think needed to be converted in some way.

Thatís here in this picture, yet to truly answer this question, we have come to some agreement on what created the basic forms of atoms and structures, that all of this is.
You see the painter is infinitely logical as this appears prearranged, for to say any of it formed by chance especially atoms is illogical, as I see it.

Also if you re-read what I put in the lines post, I was describing how God formed Godís self in the beginning, I am not naively saying God is eternal, as God must have come from some where. I have taken my head to many levels out side of consciousness, to try and stick it into terms, I can understand and still there is more. If that makes sense questioning each question with a question, so what made that if that made that, ECT.

Itís like even if we were in the matrix and it was a computer system, someone must have made that, and who made them, and who made that.

We have to find somewhere to end this and so we can find a beginning, and as I now see, it is as I spoke in the lines post.
As this is the way cells form and many microscopic organisms and if you know the Tao Te Ching, it is the small things that make the big things. So if something interacts on a small level in such a way, it does on a larger level on many occasions.

Any way I am going off track trying to explain and I am getting tired, yet do you see my point?

Peace N love B with U
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avyakt7
Re: The origin of the universe Posted on: 2005/6/25 14:12
Just popping in
Joined:
2005/2/15 15:57
Posts: 18
what you are looking at is called a self sufficient system.
We are part of it. We human beings, in this material universe are just part of this self sufficient system... we are not something separated from it. As we see that everything fits together, we can better understand the law "matter is not created neither destroyed, it only transforms" and that is exactly what happens...You perceive that matter is "recycled", the 1st law of thermodynamics says that it gets transformed....same trend of thought. However, the basic point is that matter cannot be created. It has alway existed. Your assumption that there is a need from a "beginning" of time, it is exactly what I wrote about in the beginning of the thread " the meaning of life" . I pointed out, that the linear vision of time is wrong. Because you run into the problem of finding a cause for a effect ad infinitum...without finding a "origin" o beginning you cannot assume that your theory explains what happened in the beginning. However, when you look at time as a circle, as a cycle, you can only see that the 3 aspects of time are always there and that there is always a cause for an effect. Therefore, time is eternal, cyclical and repetitive and because of all of this, it is also predestined.

Logically, reasonably speaking the universe couldn't be created. It has always existed. Of course, there are opinions that may disagree with this statement, however; what is the reasonable proof? Of course, besides the fact that some book said so...
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