JolietJim | Re: Jesus said chop off your body parts?
Posted on: 2012/1/2 21:18 |
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Just popping in
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Y'know, I think yer taking it exactly the 180 degree from what he intended. All the prophets had a definite streak of dramatic irony or even outright sarcasm, and Jesus was no exception. The purpose, was to drive the point home clearly to those who were paying attention.
It should be obvious that chopping off a large, important part of the body like an eye, hand or foot is not going to improve yer attitude, nor will it make you lust any less. Therefore it can't be true that he was suggesting removing a body part to remove lust; and getting rid of passions is not a big item on his agenda. Quite the opposite. Matthew 10:34 Do not think that I come to send peace on Earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Luke 12:49 I have come to send fire on the Earth; and how I am distressed till it becomes kindled; You quote hacking off an eye and a hand; he also said cutting off a foot and throwing it away: Mark 9:45 And if your foot offends you, cut it off; it is better for you to enter lame into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never will be quenched, Mark 9:46 Where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. His point was in a riddle in a wordplay on a body part he mentioned, that he would like to get rid of. It was well known, and still is, that the Latin term for 'foot' is 'tarsus'. The tarsus he referred to, was going to be the epistles by a certain Paul of Tarsus, who praised Jesus as God but contradicted everything Jesus taught. The rant about cutting off body parts was to get our attention, because tearing out the epistles could be, in fact, done literally after the 4th century. And, a lot of prophecy, most of it actually, centers around the day of wrath, which is mentioned frequently as associated with events of the passover, as during the exodus from Egypt; and passover ('Pesach') also means 'lame'. (Look it up!) Jesus certainly did want to amputate a 'Tarsus' from any association with his teachings. I once tried to make a list of things that Jesus and Paul agreed upon, and things that they disagreed upon. The first list remained blank; the second list, to date, has 81 items. He is definitely the 'anti-Jesus'. He made many more remarks that make absolutely no sense, unless applied against Paul of Tarsus; that is what a 'riddle' is. Just try replacing 'foot' or 'feet' with 'Tarsus', and you will see what I mean; as in John 13, he washes the feet but says there is a 'tarsus' that has been washed but remains unclean; the heel is one of the seven bones of the tarsus, and he says the tarsus of the person with whom he shared bread, is raised against him. There are many, many more. Just try making your own pair of lists, and see which one fills up quickly, and which one stays empty! (And. look around at other prophetic passages, such as Revelation 13 where one of the seven heads of the beast received a fatal wound from which it miraculously recovered; and compare with Acts 9 where Paul (Saul) of Tarsus received a bolt from the blue in the head, blinding him; stuff like that is usually fatal; and his blindness was miraculously healed in the house of Judas, and he got a lot of attention and, eventually, one of the biggest followings in the western world. Or, Genesis 3, where the serpent attacks with a bite to the tarsus, and its head, once again, is wounded. The list of correspondences goes on and on throughout prophecy. --------------------------- The one who frequently spoke out against passion and sex was Paul of Tarsus. Voluntary chastity was like being a eunuch; and Jesus was hinting that his enemy Paul was trying to make his followers eunuchs. If you have read the first chapter of Genesis, that goes against the first commandment to all life - "go forth and multiply"; you don't do that as a eunuch. AND the name 'Paul' was from the Babylonian nickname (PWL, which means 'beans') of Tiglath Piliser IV, who was in the habit of castrating the rulers of all the lands he conquered in the 8th century BCE, to eliminate dynasties that might be hard to control in conquered territory. -------------------------- In Luke 20:34-35, just because you are not married, does not mean you must not have sex (as in, 'go forth and multiply', if you are to obey the Law). Marriage was because of property concerns and inheritance and children to help with farm work, which is not an issue when you deal with the Creator; he can surely take care of those concerns for us, if he can create trillions of galaxies. Why would anyone want to make an eternal contract with someone they might get tired of after a few hundred centuries, if marriage was necessary for having sex? Yep. No marriage. Just sex. | |
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JolietJim | Re: The Rapture
Posted on: 2011/12/30 10:41 |
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Just popping in
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Regarding knowing when the day of wrath is scheduled:
Yes, Jesus said: Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the messengers of the heavens but my Father only. Well, did it ever occur to you, to ask the Father? If you want spiritual information, you do not go to created beings such as the angels (messengers of YHWH) or to Jesus, unless Jesus is giving us prophecy from his Father. You do not go to created beings, whether angels or the bible-thumping pain in the posterior next door, or to the greatly revered books written by idolized great authors. You want to know what's going on? Ask the Creator; don't make him jealous by going to those we love to idolize, even if they dress nicely. There are a lot of prophecies that say so: Deuteronomy 30:10 If you will pay attention to Voice-of-YHWH-your-Elohim, to keep his-Commandments and his-Statutes which are written in the Scroll-of-the-Law, and if you turn to YHWH-your-Elohim with all your heart, and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 30:11 For the-Commandment which I command you this day, it is not hidden from you, nor is it far off. Deuteronomy 30:12 It is not in the heavens so that you should say: Who will go up for us to the heavens and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it? Deuteronomy 30:13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you should say: Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and do it? Deuteronomy 30:14 But the-Word is very near to you, in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. --- Psalm 16:7-8 I will bless YHWH, who has given me counsel: and my dreams instruct me during the nighttime. --- Psalm 99:6 Moses and Aaron among His priests, And Samuel among those proclaiming His name. They are calling to YHWH, And He does answer them. --- Isaiah 8:11 For YHWH spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying: Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the Prophets and seal the Law among my disciples. Isaiah 8:17 And I will wait upon YHWH who hides his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. Isaiah 8:19 Should not a people inquire of his-Elohim? [Why inquire] of the dead for the living? Isaiah 8:20 To the Law-and-Prophets: if they do not speak according to the-Word, it is because there is no light in him. --- Isaiah 42:8 I-YHWH am he: my-Name and my-Glory I will not give to another, nor my-Praise to carved-images. Isaiah 42:9 Behold, the former things came to pass and future things, and I declare them: before they spring forth, I will tell you(p) about them. --- Isaiah 44:7 And who, as I, will call, and will declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? And the things that are coming, and will come, to show to them? Isaiah 45:11 Thus says YHWH-Holy-One-of-Israel-and-his-Creator to you(p): Ask of me things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands, command me. Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the Earth: I did not say to the seed of Jacob: Seek me in futility; I-YHWH, speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. --- Job 42:4 Hear, please, and I will speak: I will inquire, and you tell me. --- Isaiah 48:3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I showed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass. Isaiah 48:5 I have even from the beginning declared it to you; before it came to pass I showed it to you, lest you should say: my-idol has done them, and my-carving, and my-molten-image, has commanded them. Isaiah 48:6 You have heard and seen all this; and will you(p) not declare it? I have shown you new things from this time, even hidden things, and you did not know of them. Isaiah 48:7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; and not before the day when you heard them; lest you should say: Behold, I knew them. --- Isaiah 53:1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of YHWH been revealed? Isaiah 55:6 Seek you [pl.] YHWH, while He is found, Call Him, while He is near, 11 My word that goes out of My mouth, It turns not back to Me empty, But has done that which I desired, And prosperously effected that [for] which I sent it. --- Jeremiah 29:13 And you(p) will seek me and find me, when you(p) search for me with all your(p) heart. Jeremiah 29:14 And I will be found by you(p), an averment of YHWH: Jeremiah 33:2 Thus says; YHWH-the-maker-YHWH-the-former-to-establish-it; YHWH is his-Name; Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know. --- Daniel 2:29 As for you, your thoughts came into your mind upon your bed, what should come to pass in the future: and he, the One-revealing-the-secrets makes known to you what will come to pass. Daniel 2:30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have superior to that of anyone living, but for the purpose that the interpretation will be revealed .. that you might know the thoughts of your heart. --- Hosea 6:1 Come, and let us return to YHWH, for he has torn, and he will heal us; he has wounded, and he will bind us up. Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us; in the third day he will raise us up, and we will live in his sight. Hosea 6:3 Then will we know, if we go on to know YHWH; his going forth is waiting like the morning; and he will come to us as the rain, as the latter and former rain to the Earth. Hosea 12:10 And I have spoken to the prophets, And I have multiplied vision, And by the hand of the prophets I use similes [parables]. --- Joel 2:28 And it will come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your(p) sons and your(p) daughters will prophesy, your(p) old men will dream dreams, your(p) young men will see visions: Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day-of-YHWH. Joel 2:32 And it will come to pass, that whoever will call on the Name-of-YHWH will be delivered: for in mount Zion and in the Jerusalem will be deliverance, as YHWH has said: for remnant whom YHWH will call. --- Amos 3:6 Will a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people will not be afraid? Will there be evil in a city, and YHWH has not caused it? Amos 3:7 Surely my-Adonai-YHWH will do nothing until he first reveals his secret to his servants the-prophets. Amos 4:13 For truly, he who made the mountains, who creates the wind, and who declares to man his thoughts; who makes the morning into darkness, and treads upon the high places of the Earth, YHWH-Elohim-of-hosts is his-Name --- Matthew 7:7-9 Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you: Matthew 7:8 for every one who asks receives; and he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks it will be opened. The upshot of this is, if you seek wholeheartedly and do NOT go to the human authorities for spiritual matters, you have a promise from Jehovah that he will answer you; the length of time is sometimes given as within ten days, to three weeks, tops. The most common way is dreaming that some friendly messengers are telling you the answer in a dream; then a heavenly voice awakens you, and though the dream may fade, if you sit and think on it, the answer appears clearly; or, if there is doubt, you can ask for a sign and for a stronger, clearer repetition of the answer. But if you know clearly what you want to know, and you ask wholeheartedly and humbly but strongly insist on an answer and do not go and compare Jehovah to some apostle or sage, he answers. This, by the way, is a 'testable hypothesis', as scientists put it. I'm acquainted with the scientific method. I suggest taking the books of commentaries and papal bulls and talmud and statements of what Christians believe, etc. etc. and put those in a box and tape it shut; tell no one about it, or you have to contend with their opinions; then read, and find some absolutely impenetrable prophetic passage, and, like a little kid, ask insistently, daily before sleeping, WHAT IT MEANS. Remember, he commands us to COMMAND him, to tell us what it means. Maybe in a few days you begin to dream about it. That's good. And then, you might even be awakened by a heavenly voice calling your name, often loudly, with a resounding ambient sound resembling a waterfall or large rapids of water. It may well nearly scare the @#$% out of you, from time to time. That's what David was talking about, instructions in dreams; or see ! Samuel 3 for a really good and typical example of the heavenly voice. The voice is usually just a wake up call, though. But, if you have a humble, curious, child-like attitude about this stuff, try this: figure out what you would consider clear and definite proof, and then insist on this, and see what happens. Faith is not required; just wholehearted desire for knowledge and humility and active curiosity. Personally, I really did not expect any response; what happened was far beyond any personal minimal requirement for authenticity; that is, the answer was so resounding it blew me away and left me in shock for days. I wanted something very clear, and I got way more than I expected - which is what he promises. (It is also possible to inquire of the answers to unsolved problems in high-energy physics and get a response.) The humility thing is important; I knew of a lady who on occasion met with these messengers, and once she 'smarted off' to them, and they gave her a good whacking in return; she says, be careful of your attitude, be very careful. That, by the way, is what the scriptures are for; they are a manual for us, for how to conduct ourselves when inquiring of our Elohim. On one hand, it is truly dangerous if done foolishly; but on the other hand, we are urged to 'inquire of Jehovah' at least 70 or 80 times throughout the Law and Prophets. But, don't believe me, go try it for yourself a couple of weeks to see if I am wrong. | |
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JolietJim | Re: Will God burn up the heavens and earth?
Posted on: 2011/12/29 19:54 |
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Just popping in
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There's a lot of mentions of 'fire' in prophecy; Daniel 7 has the political Beast and the religious False Prophet being sent to the 'glowing flames' (or lake of fire, or burning brimstone, elsewhere). There's "my word is like fire, like a hammer that breaks rocks". Most common is the image of the harvest, from the OT prophets to the NT prophets (Jesus and John's Revelation; Jesus was a prophet; he described himself as a prophet, and others called him that). At the last harvest, the wheat is gathered into grain shocks, and put on the harvesting floor where it was trampled to separate the wheat from the useless chaff, and then the chaff was blown away or thrown into the fire.
Now remember, a lot of imagery is metaphorical, that nonetheless describes a very real event; in this case, the day of wrath, where the useless chaff is sent to a fire, or a furnace. So, what's this furnace? Our sun is described as a furnace over Jerusalem; and we know that there's a billion 'furnaces' in our galaxy and trillions more galaxies. Most languages, from English to biblical Hebrew, have the particle for the word translated as 'into' also meaning 'towards'. Just in time, as it were, for the day of Jehovah, is the discovery of hundreds of other planets orbiting other suns. So, being burned up and thrown into a furnace, is a metaphor for being: snared, zapped up; swept away; raptured; slain by a heavenly sword; becoming a pillar of sparkling salt in the morning sun; etc. and hauled away or removed or thrown towards a very distant sun to a planet of detention orbiting that sun. Several prophecies describe this as happening very suddenly, in the course of a single day after a year of trials and difficulties. As in Psalm 37, Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7, etc, the obedient (meek, humble) inherit the Earth under the Christ-Messiah (about a dozen prophecies); and the new (or old, pre-expulsion-from-Eden) Earth is returned to its original, rightful place as a paradise without evil, where 'knowledge covers the Earth as water covers the bottom of the sea' where corruption and disease are unknown. But notice - if the good, Mosaic Law-abiding people remain on Earth in the creative paradise here, there are a lot a mentions of a lot of people (nine out of ten!) being removed forever from Earth and 'raptured' somewhere. That 'somewhere' is with the evil beast (of Daniel, Jesus, etc.). Jesus (Luke 17) says it is where the vultures gather, pretty obviously where those who are 'dead to us' are imprisoned on a planet very far away, hurled there towards a distant 'furnace' or sun. That the evil people are the ones who are 'raptured', is very clear when you read the OT prophecies carefully; that is why the meek inherit the Earth. Really, if the obedient people remain here on Earth with the Messiah, those that are swept up and hauled away and raptured, are (duhhh) the ones who are evil, who reject the Law and Prophets. This explains neatly why there is no mention in the OT about 'dying and going to heaven'. Instead, those who are faithful to the Law, 'sleep in the dust' and stay on Earth. All the evidence in the prophecies about the last day, are entirely consistent with evil being removed from Earth, and sent off to a place in the heavens, to be quarantined and detained, sent off to a 'furnace' far away. In fact this scenario is elegantly consistent, from the prophecies of 20 and 35 centuries ago, to what we now know of space travel, as we would commonly conceive of it. I made a list of the prophecies that describe this scenario. Basically what happens, is on that day of terror, the good people hole up and hunker down and hide, just as during the 'passover' before the exodus from Egypt (or Rahab and her family who helped Joshua's spies in Jericho; and Lot and his daughters when Sodom was destroyed; also 1 Samuel 19:2; 1 Samuel 20:19; Job 14:13; Psalm 27:5; 57:1; 63:7; 94:13; and especially Isaiah 26:20-21 and Jeremiah 4:6-7 and 17:17 and Habakkuk 3:13-18 and .. a dozen more). But, the evil are snared, caught, paralyzed lying in the streets to be swept up, etc. (Rapture? no thanks.) You might also notice the many descriptions of this 'last day' are amid the sun becoming dark and the moon becoming dark or red. Eclipses - full eclipses - fit this description; and on Passover in 2014 and 2015 we have full eclipses of the moon, and full eclipses of the sun at the closest possible time (a fortnight) to passover, both times. One full eclipse at passover is very unusual; to have both solar and lunar full eclipses two years in a row, is extremely rare, and hasn't happened in at least seven or so centuries (you can check astronomical records on the web). Descriptions often have dual metaphors; those on Earth (us, the good guys) see the skies becoming dark; those who are exiled and banished from Earth during the 'rapture' see the skies becoming dark (as they leave the atmosphere of Earth), and then they see 'the Earth and sun hiding themselves' as a couple more prophecies put it, as they get further and further from our solar system. But, there was one part of these descriptions that made my jaw hit the floor, and pretty much wrapped it up for me, that these descriptions were for real, by an Intelligence that was about to do what he repeatedly was describing, as he described it. I know a little bit of astrophysics and special relativity, from browsing a few sites on the internet that have simulations of what it would look like to travel near the speed of light. As the speed of light is approached, there is a type of relativistic aberration that occurs, where objects surrounding the fast-moving traveler, appear to be shifted and compressed into a cylinder ahead of their real position in space; and the traveler appears to be moving down the axis of this cylinder. This near-light-speed optical effect is not shown on shows such as Star Trek or Star Wars, but you can find a few on-line simulations of it; and I found (in the appropriate contexts) an elegant description of this in Isaiah 34:3-5 and Revelation 6 Isaiah 34:3-5 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falls off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. Isaiah 34:5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Edom, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. That aberration of light is neatly described as 'heavens rolled up as a scroll'. The 'sword' is mentioned over eighty times in prophecy as 'Jacob's ladder', a whirlwind coming down on the workers of evil', a pillar of light (at night) and smoke during the day; etc. In Revelation, there is mention of a mark being put in or on the foreheads of those who remain in the Earthly world to come; this is described in detail in Ezekiel 9. This column or pillar is mentioned by Moses and Joshua many times, and by others, as if it was an elevator; this pillar of light is, apparently, used for temporarily taking someone, to instruct them, or show them things, or to implant something in them before returning them; then, on the last day, those with that 'mark' are left behind to live in the re-established paradise on Earth, but those without the mark are removed and taken away. These descriptions of the 'pillar' and the strange beings associated with it, bear a certain resemblance to the modern descriptions of 'alien abductions'. I have never witnessed anything like these phenomena, but several times, about 15 miles east of here, hundreds to thousands of people simultaneously saw gigantic silent vehicles, triangular in shape, slowly cruising overhead, over a half mile in size; you can find this in Wikipedia: 'Tinley (or Orland) Park Lights'. After researching several dozen modern reports of these unusual phenomena and comparing them with Ezekiel 9 and other biblical descriptions (including several in Daniel), I can only conclude that the 'certain resemblance' between the modern and ancient descriptions is best described as 'identical'. | |
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